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I have questions about dreadwax - yes, I'm really asking this here lol

Knotty Jonny Clean
@knotty-jonny-clean
7 years ago
13 posts

Ok so you know me (or are really sure you know me right?) but that's cool, I'm not here to change any minds lol. I'm asking for some honest info - I promise you can be totally truthful, I won't use it "against you" or anything.I know your opinions about using wax obviously, so I'm really just looking for a quick honest count. I know you think I'm the biggest liar and all that and like I said I won't try to change your mind, I'm not here to argue. I'm looking for a head count.I want to know how many people here personally used dread wax at any point and what brand of dread wax they used. If you used more than one please list them.peace, love n' respectKJCPS: This is the first time I've posted since the debate letter, I know there was some confusion about what type of debate I agreed to. I apologize to those that were upset by my decision not to participate according to SE's plans. Everyone probably heard that I didn't actually agree to his terms but there's not reason to revisit that.... in any case I wanted to apologize.


updated by @knotty-jonny-clean: 02/14/15 08:05:17AM
tatyananashi
@tatyananashi
7 years ago
145 posts
That's SO hetero!- and testing products on customers without them knowing and regardless of how harmful to their dreads it would be is so like something our government would do. Being compared to that entity should be offensive enough!rawsum said:
this admission pretty much sums up my frustration ..

"Fortunately the science is pretty straight forward. Im sorry that its difficult to believe because it doesnt fit with your personal experience but regardless you should try to consider the possibility that if you had used only DHHQ products, only as recommended, and followed the instructions to the letter, as one would do in an experiment, that your experience removing wax would have been different. Theres no way to prove it and I confess Im still learning and improving my product and info all the time."

I would have hoped that the masses you market to are not your laboratory rats to experiment on .. maybe you can see where my frustration stems from now .. you might also realize why I am now vocal about the method to your madness .. although I have been duped I am not the type to stand aside while others fall prey to the same fate ..

..how hetero is THAT !
tatyananashi
@tatyananashi
7 years ago
145 posts
Exactly! Honey isn't vegan and neither is bee's wax.Dayna said:
OK, I'm new to this debate. I'm not getting in on the wax no wax thing. I tried it. It sucked. The end.
What I want to know is the answer to soaringeagles question:

How can you be vegan with wax in your hair? :)
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
7 years ago
28,096 posts
your awesome but im not sure if the fan would be suitable wed need to test itthe turbulance mite tear em apart more then knot em upbut like the way your thinking very simular to the original idea i put out in the debatebut i think i had em hanging from a line clothesline with a gentle swinging motion like a jump ropebut i forgetwe are thinking along simular linesoh butthe point in my version of the sleep cycle was compression for 8 hours at normal head weight.. 12 times turning to simulate some tossing and turning to compress diferent parts of the head at diferent angles and round em out more naturalyofcourse like normal sleep 1 side will get almost none the side usualy slept on will get most and other sides someso an average will developtatyananashi said:
Well in the name of science I was thinking about doing an experiment once and for all, very similar to this. I was going to recruit my hairdresser friend to do it. One, because she does not know my preference for unwaxed dreads so there will be no bias, two because she works in the realm of hair and additionally has a lot of free time so she can perform this experiment adequately.
Here is what I propose.
A swath of real human hair will be purchased for use. It will be divided into 3 groups of exactly equal proportions. The hair will come from the same specimen so that texture and condition of the hair cannot be a variable in the results.
Sections will be labeled A B and C. A will be backcombed and waxed according to instructions on wax. Section B will just be backcombed. Section C will be the control.
Each section will be placed in the center portion of an identical deskfan. This is for wind resistance. They will spend time being tossed around in wind for 8 hours, to simulate walking around during the day.
Once a day for 45 minutes they will be put into separate identical wool tams or socks, pinned closed, and tossed in a tumble dryer. This is to simulate sleep. People dont continuously roll around while sleeping so 45 minutes should be sufficient.
Because they are not attached to any heads and will not be getting oily from sebum, there will be minimal water-washing only. This will happen every 2 weeks. Water rinse with sun dry. For dreads this would be an ideal situation. :)
The study will take 6 months. After 6 months of this daily routine all the dreads will be weighed. Then, the wax will be removed from the waxed dread to accurately measure whether wax does indeed allow a dread to form or if it just makes the hair *look* dreaded. To ensure all wax is removed it will be weighed and will need to weigh the same as it did before the waxing. All the dreads should theoretically weigh the same at the end as they did in the beginning. Wax removal is necessary to assess the dreading of the waxed dread without distorting the results with additional mass and color added by wax.
The results will be measured by examining the dreads under a microscope, on a lighted reference desk (they use these for examining xrays). If anyone thinks it would be cool I can also probably convince one of my xray tech friends to xray the dreads at a very low intensity so the hair shows up. That might at least be cool to look at. :)
If anyone is down for this I will get it started. Any criticism is welcome, as well as suggestions to make this experiment reasonable.


soaringeagle said:
ok if an experiment is the only way to prove someting heres an actual 1 that makes sense

2 plastic heads foll of dreads 1 waxed..no palm rolling at all alowed no manipulation beyond the 1st backcombing/t&r
\
heads are attached to a heaDbanger a machine that simulates motion like headbanging
heads should weigh about what a head weighs
8 hours a day its taken off the headbanger put on a tossturner its alowed to lay all its weight on a pillow and is tossed and turned 12 times a night sides back diferent positions

wax head is w3axed and removed as recomended
3 months later extreme efforts are made to remove all wax from wax head
then progress is measured between the heads frim that oint on when both heads are allowed to dread normaly with headbangin n tossturnin

im totaLY SURE U WILL SEE the waX hEAD LAGS MONThS BEhIND IN ACTUAL PROGRESS

for comical value
dreads should be at least 2 feet long and viseo the headbangin and in slow mo compare movement and relative stiffness



--
Creator and head dreadhead at:
Dreadlocks Site
Glider pilot student at:
Freedoms wings international
tatyananashi
@tatyananashi
7 years ago
145 posts
Yeah and sleeping is when dreadies form a lot so it's an essential part. Hard to duplicate without actually spending 8 hours compressing and tossing/turning like real sleep has. Also I was thinking that with the fans, cuz it would blow out the motors and ruin the specimens.
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
7 years ago
28,096 posts
but we are much closer to a legit experiment


--
Creator and head dreadhead at:
Dreadlocks Site
Glider pilot student at:
Freedoms wings international
Knotty Jonny Clean
@knotty-jonny-clean
7 years ago
13 posts
Well in the name of science I was thinking about doing an experiment once and for all, very similar to this. I was going to recruit my hairdresser friend to do it. One, because she does not know my preference for unwaxed dreads so there will be no bias, two because she works in the realm of hair and additionally has a lot of free time so she can perform this experiment adequately.Sounds good. The idea of choosing someone that isnt biased is nice but ultimately you want to be sure that the experiment is repeatable by anyone whod care do it. If its easily repeatable then when someone doubts the validity of the results (for any reason) they have the opportunity to do it themselves to verify the results.Here is what I propose.A swath of real human hair will be purchased for use. It will be divided into 3 groups of exactly equal proportions. The hair will come from the same specimen so that texture and condition of the hair cannot be a variable in the results.Having the hair not only from the same sample - but actually knowing the manufacture and what type and style it is will allow others to get the same exact hair.Sections will be labeled A B and C. A will be backcombed and waxed according to instructions on wax. Section B will just be backcombed. Section C will be the control.Each section will be placed in the center portion of an identical deskfan. This is for wind resistance. They will spend time being tossed around in wind for 8 hours, to simulate walking around during the day.This could work. Of course fans differ in speed and power so youd want to have some idea of the force of the air. Its doubtful how closely this would simulate what a dread goes through unless your job was to drive around in a convertible for 8 hours a day. =]Once a day for 45 minutes they will be put into separate identical wool tams or socks, pinned closed, and tossed in a tumble dryer. This is to simulate sleep. People dont continuously roll around while sleeping so 45 minutes should be sufficient.This sounds good. Youll want to be sure that what you put them in does not shed. Sitting on them for a few minutes, adjusting them and sitting on them again a few times might better simulate what they go through during sleep. Its only the compression that is really having an effect on them.Because they are not attached to any heads and will not be getting oily from sebum, there will be minimal water-washing only. This will happen every 2 weeks. Water rinse with sun dry. For dreads this would be an ideal situation. :)The washing would need to follow the washing instructions on our site as closely as possible. You didnt state the objectives of the experiment but my guess is that were testing the removability of wax when its being used as recommended right? If thats the case it must be washed as recommended, maintained as recommended and even hot rinsed at the end of each month as recommended. Otherwise, the experiment will only tell us what goes on when wax isnt used as recommended. The oil that our scalps produce can be simulated with Jojoba oil. Its become a popular cosmetic ingredient because it mimics our natural scalp oil almost exactly. A fraction of a drop should be applied in a consistent way each day that the dreads are not being washed.The study will take 6 months. After 6 months of this daily routine all the dreads will be weighed. Then, the wax will be removed from the waxed dread to accurately measure whether wax does indeed allow a dread to form or if it just makes the hair *look* dreaded.If we are testing the wax during regular recommended use, wouldn't we remove the wax when the dreads tighten as recommended? Tight or not the wax should be removed with a hot rinse at the end of each month that its used. Why wouldnt we follow the instructions?To ensure all wax is removed it will be weighed and will need to weigh the same as it did before the waxing. All the dreads should theoretically weigh the same at the end as they did in the beginning.Agreed, and you would need to be certain the dreads were completely dry each time they were weighed and that no foreign material was able to contaminate the samples and increase their weight. If the weight is influenced by anything other than wax you wont get meaningful results.Wax removal is necessary to assess the dreading of the waxed dread without distorting the results with additional mass and color added by wax.Exactly.The results will be measured by examining the dreads under a microscope, on a lighted reference desk (they use these for examining xrays).A visual inspection would be nice but I dont understand what measurements would be taken using a microscope? As far as I can tell the experiment would rely completely on the weight of the dreads to determine the degree of wax removal. This is why its crucial that nothing come in contact with the dreads (fuzz feather etc.) other than the products necessary to carry out the experiment.If anyone is down for this I will get it started. Any criticism is welcome, as well as suggestions to make this experiment reasonable.Im glad that youre motivated to work on this. Ive done several of these experiments now and Ive learned something new each time. Ill be glad to help in any way I can!mad respect,KJCPS: I saw a few comments about how Im able to use a product with beeswax if Im a raw vegan.... Good question. The short answer is that Im not a raw vegan (and never said I was =] )...Im just a raw food enthusiast. I eat about 75-80% raw - most of this is vegan except for some sushi but Im not a vegan or even a vegetarian for that matter. Since you mention it, all of the DHHQ products are vegan friendly except for the wax (due to beeswax). Ive long been working on a vegan wax formula and Id offer you guys samples to check out but I know that wouldnt be appropriate considering this forums stance on wax.tatyananashi said:
Well in the name of science I was thinking about doing an experiment once and for all, very similar to this. I was going to recruit my hairdresser friend to do it. One, because she does not know my preference for unwaxed dreads so there will be no bias, two because she works in the realm of hair and additionally has a lot of free time so she can perform this experiment adequately.
Here is what I propose. A swath of real human hair will be purchased for use. It will be divided into 3 groups of exactly equal proportions. The hair will come from the same specimen so that texture and condition of the hair cannot be a variable in the results.Sections will be labeled A B and C. A will be backcombed and waxed according to instructions on wax. Section B will just be backcombed. Section C will be the control.Each section will be placed in the center portion of an identical deskfan. This is for wind resistance. They will spend time being tossed around in wind for 8 hours, to simulate walking around during the day.Once a day for 45 minutes they will be put into separate identical wool tams or socks, pinned closed, and tossed in a tumble dryer. This is to simulate sleep. People dont continuously roll around while sleeping so 45 minutes should be sufficient.Because they are not attached to any heads and will not be getting oily from sebum, there will be minimal water-washing only. This will happen every 2 weeks. Water rinse with sun dry. For dreads this would be an ideal situation. :)The study will take 6 months. After 6 months of this daily routine all the dreads will be weighed. Then, the wax will be removed from the waxed dread to accurately measure whether wax does indeed allow a dread to form or if it just makes the hair *look* dreaded. To ensure all wax is removed it will be weighed and will need to weigh the same as it did before the waxing. All the dreads should theoretically weigh the same at the end as they did in the beginning. Wax removal is necessary to assess the dreading of the waxed dread without distorting the results with additional mass and color added by wax.The results will be measured by examining the dreads under a microscope, on a lighted reference desk (they use these for examining xrays). If anyone thinks it would be cool I can also probably convince one of my xray tech friends to xray the dreads at a very low intensity so the hair shows up. That might at least be cool to look at. :)If anyone is down for this I will get it started. Any criticism is welcome, as well as suggestions to make this experiment reasonable.soaringeagle said:
ok if an experiment is the only way to prove someting heres an actual 1 that makes sense

2 plastic heads foll of dreads 1 waxed..no palm rolling at all alowed no manipulation beyond the 1st backcombing/t&r
\
heads are attached to a heaDbanger a machine that simulates motion like headbanging
heads should weigh about what a head weighs
8 hours a day its taken off the headbanger put on a tossturner its alowed to lay all its weight on a pillow and is tossed and turned 12 times a night sides back diferent positions

wax head is w3axed and removed as recomended
3 months later extreme efforts are made to remove all wax from wax head
then progress is measured between the heads frim that oint on when both heads are allowed to dread normaly with headbangin n tossturnin

im totaLY SURE U WILL SEE the waX hEAD LAGS MONThS BEhIND IN ACTUAL PROGRESS

for comical value
dreads should be at least 2 feet long and viseo the headbangin and in slow mo compare movement and relative stiffness
Knotty Jonny Clean
@knotty-jonny-clean
7 years ago
13 posts
@RawsumAdmission of what? That I believe the majority of my customers are able to follow instructions and use the products as recommended? That's a negative?In an experiment you would follow the usage instructions to be sure you were getting accurate results (one would hope anyway), and the majority of my customers share two things in common - they followed the instructions and they are pleased with the results. I'm not asking you to agree with that statement. Of course you don't. I write it only so you can clearly see my perceptive and better understand the parallel I drew between following instructions and carrying out an experiment in my earlier statement.What's interesting to me is that you choose to pick out a sentence like that and throw it out as an attack on my integrity while the details of a meaningful, repeatable, experiment are currently being discussed right here.... If what you care about is the truth - and not some personal vendetta - wouldn't you be better served by helping us make an experiment as good as it can be so the truth is revealed?thank you for your consideration,KJCPS: I'm sorry that you feel frustrated. Do you often feel misunderstood?rawsum said:
this admission pretty much sums up my frustration ..

"Fortunately the science is pretty straight forward. Im sorry that its difficult to believe because it doesnt fit with your personal experience but regardless you should try to consider the possibility that if you had used only DHHQ products, only as recommended, and followed the instructions to the letter, as one would do in an experiment, that your experience removing wax would have been different. Theres no way to prove it and I confess Im still learning and improving my product and info all the time."

I would have hoped that the masses you market to are not your laboratory rats to experiment on .. maybe you can see where my frustration stems from now .. you might also realize why I am now vocal about the method to your madness .. although I have been duped I am not the type to stand aside while others fall prey to the same fate ..

..how hetero is THAT !
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
7 years ago
28,096 posts
umm u missed the entire point of the experriment and why no washing and monthly wax removal according to directiions was needed or wantedther point of the experiment had nothing to do with how removable wax isit has to do with wether wax helps speed or slow dreading!thats why no palm rolling is permittedthe wax is applied and only normal daily activities are simulated..moving and sleepingthen the wax is removed (if its possible to remove) and see if the wax free or previosly waxed dread is actually more dreadedthe experiment should co on with both sets after the wax is removed to test progress beyond the waxy period to see which reaches acvtual maturity not faked msaturity 1st


--
Creator and head dreadhead at:
Dreadlocks Site
Glider pilot student at:
Freedoms wings international
NaturalWomyn
@naturalwomyn
7 years ago
849 posts
I was wondering that too PJ! Where did Lisa go? she put loads of work into her experiment and I haven't heard from her in a while.Personal Jesus said:
ugh this is old the circle talking marketing is really silly now this has pretty much turned into what happened the last time: he circle talks, makes up silly experiment, then circle talks more about people using his product wrong. then when another experiment is suggested he circle talks about how its not up to code. is everyone forgetting the woman that did an experiment video before and posted it on youtube (and no she didnt follow the site she used less than recommended)ANYWHO she stopped like a week in when she realized it wasnt washing out of the dread at all (she tested it on a hair extension compared to another wax free one ) I dont really care much for this thread because it just has gone on too long with little results plus its taking up space :P and where did lisa go? she was doing a year test hmm odd well i guess this new one should be done then
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