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official johnny clean dreadlocks and dread wax debate may 7th 8pm est

☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
i love ya you raggedy ol cavewoman..loli wouldny even care if he never said hes just in it for the money if hed just admit ppl complain alot or that he is aware of how many dreads get cut due to wax...if hed just admit there maybe a problem it would show much charachter..or hell if hed admit there are better ways then his way but his ways fine if you just want a temporary lookor hell id call it a massive improvement if he put just single sentence on his site.if you feel and deep profound or spiritual connection to dreading want to dread as a lifechanging experience or hope to keep yor dreads for many years, then our products and methods may not be your best chouce and you should concider going natural instead. however if you want quick dread look heres what our products can do for you:just removing all the insulting lamguange and adding that 1 simple sentence would kake alot of a difference...id still recomend to every dready i see to not use wax ofcourse, but id feel alot less need to target him as a bad guy or the enemy of dreadies everywhere


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27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
Nic Sullivan
@nic-sullivan
9 years ago
47 posts
Alright i know this thing is pretty much over, but i feel the need to say something about it. Because this was a attempt at having a peaceful debate. For some reason that just couldn't be done. Why I will never understand. I had my run with wax and maybe i used it wrong or to often. I don't know. But there are plenty of people that have been use'n wax and it worked for them. Yea it sucks that some people cut there hair and had to restart because the May Or May not have over used. But the fact of the matter is it's really just hair. And no i'm not saying that makes it okay for KJC to sell anyone products to do the opposite of the seller said is intendedI got locs for a lot of reasons. None of those reasons had to do with anyone else other than myself. I want to find the best way to make my locs look good.The bottom line is the more i think about how this site seems to think Johnny is just doing this for a paycheck the more i think that isn't even possible.Because of the fact that so few people have dreadlocks. I mean for example flip through your high school year book how many people had locs in the school and were white? (Seeing as how is products are intended for white people hair) Cause i tell you my school is pretty big and in the last 8 years.I bet 4 People in the hole school had locs. It might be different in other places but i just don't know about thatPretty much what i'm try'n to say is, lets just try to find out the effectiveness of the products. And cut this bull shit out. If any one still has the stomach for conversation or debateJust so every one knows i'm not try'n to point fingures. I really just want to find out the truth about dreadlocks.
updated by @nic-sullivan: 07/10/15 06:15:43AM
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
u dont need a million customers when u have a 3000% markupthe accelerator for instance a 10 dollar bottle is worth 20 cents max for 2 dollars u can make between 300-400 bottles the wax he sells and recomends u dont over use his instructions would have u use over a whole jar the 1st time u use itthe kits 70 dollars for a comb(and some useless junk)his felting needles 6 bucks and u can get 4 felting needles fpr lessand lests not forget hes not just selling to your school but a worldwide market..thpusands a day decide to dread and his info is the only info most seeso if all he sold was wax nothing else he could be pulling in 20 grand a day easyso cpme on do u really think its that hard to believe hes not in it solely for greed?


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
Nic Sullivan
@nic-sullivan
9 years ago
47 posts
Honestly yes, i mean maybe i'm wrong cause to be honest i am pretty much in the dark i'm not close friends with Johnny so there is a chance that he lie's i don't htink so. Also it just seems odd to me that anyone could see dreadlocks as a cash cow. I mean for every nice comment about my dreads i got 10 to 20 people saying i should cut it off. I would think there would be a much better way to make money.And don't get me wrong SE I have learned a lot of truths from you, and being a guest on this fourm has taught me a lot. I like it here there a lot of nice people. but there are just as many people on johnny cleans facebook that well tell you they used wax and there dreadies are doing greatMore than that i got a friend that was lock'n up his hair for 6 years used wax the hole time and his locs were great soft to the touch layed down real nice not to much loose hair. I don't know.soaringeagle said:
u dont need a million customers when u have a 3000% markup
the accelerator for instance a 10 dollar bottle is worth 20 cents max for 2 dollars u can make between 300-400 bottles the wax he sells and recomends u dont over use his instructions would have u use over a whole jar the 1st time u use it
the kits 70 dollars for a comb
(and some useless junk)
his felting needles 6 bucks and u can get 4 felting needles fpr less


and lests not forget hes not just selling to your school but a worldwide market..thpusands a day decide to dread and his info is the only info most see
so if all he sold was wax nothing else he could be pulling in 20 grand a day easy
so cpme on do u really think its that hard to believe hes not in it solely for greed?
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
he used wax for 6 years they must be heavytry twisting 1 of his dreads round a finger see how stiff it idsor just hold it by the base and see how it stands straight up defying gravityalso keep in mind dreads do suport a few hundred thousand dread salons worldwide even tho less then 5% of dreads would go to a salon for dreadsand even the crappiest dread salons are able to stay in bussiness (theres 1 in englend that wont use wax cause wax is bad but uses liqiud latex instead) and yes even though thewy totaly screw up every dread they touch theyre able to stay in businesson johnnys fb page there maybe a couple hundred? i know hiis pro wax one had 250 members only.. average age of the dreads 2 weeks to 2 months hes able to stay in business because most of his customers are clueless newbs a very small percentage do continue using em for years and some even get lucky and dont lose theyre dreadsgo to your freind and just lift a drea by the base and see how stiff it is if it droops exactly like yours then its ok but im betting it stands straight up


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
Nic Sullivan
@nic-sullivan
9 years ago
47 posts
Yes and i agree with most of what you said, I am one of the people that bought the kit for the 70 bucks. I looked at video's on youtube. Did my research on Knotty boy and DreadheadHQ Infact most of the people that i knew told me Knotty Boy was the place to go (My friend that had dreads for 6 years) He cut'em off because of work not because he had a problem with them.He said they were great the felt good they looked nice blah blah. I will be the first to say i don't know if wax works. I mean thats only fair i have only done dreads with wax in them once. i had for 6 months and now that i have them cut to my shoulders about 75% of people are telling me that they looked way better before.I really don't think so myself and thats what really counts.I'm just say'n by based off of every thing i know wich isn't much even after all this time come'n to this site every day if i really think that wax is bad for dreadlocs.About the money thing i guess i could understand you thinking. But like i said before i don't know Johnny personaly so you might be write about him. Then again he could really be doing something he thinks helpsSister Rags said:
I graduated high school in 1981. Interestingly, Bob Marley died 3 weeks prior to my graduation and the reggae movement really took off in the U.S. But, that's beside the point.

Nic, you're correct: my 1981 hs yearbook would not show any white dreadheads. (Come to think of it, my hs yearbook hardly shows any white anybody, since the majority of my graduating class were people of color). So I guess I won't include my own hs yearbook as a Jonny dip-stick. (Actually, I'm not even sure Jonny had been born yet when I graduated hs. If he was, he was probably hawking "pacifiers for the cool baby, sure to make you the most popular baby on your block" or "buy MY disposable diaper packs! They smell clean, like gardenias, instead of dirty and poopy like those other babies".)

Here's my opinion - and I'm betting that if I needed to, I could back my opinion up with demographics:

Just in southern California alone Jonny has enough of a market to make a very decent living. There are so many people in SoCal, white and even near-white - those kinda cream-colored or light-to-medium brown folk (sometimes it's hard to tell, what with the tans and all...why, I hear the cops down there are having all sorts of flak with that idiot law our neighbor Arizona passed, being as how the tanning season is well under way down in SoCal & a new tanning salon opening every day, on nearly every block - some of those salons selling ol' Jonny's DHHQ products on their shelves right there next to the tanning acceleraters - anyway, some normally-white folks are so brown by this time of the year that the cops can't tell who the hell to ask for immigration papers & it's getting really crazy, down there.) Anyway, not to digress into politics....

Nic, rest assured that Jonny has LOADS of customers because he sells to people all over the world, people of all manner of color, race, creed, religion - in fact, if you check DHHQ you'll notice that Jonny does, in fact, advertise to African Americans.

I strongly suspect that a very decent number of people purchase DHHQ products/kits and end up frustrated with the results, then either abandon the idea of dreads OR they go to a salon that "does" dreads....or they buy Jonny's "get your dreads OUT" kit.

Any way I look at it, I see that Jonny is turning a buck. He's making money, whether those products work or not, just like any hair product line makes money, or it goes out of business. In fact, Jonny himself claims to make a livable wage off the stuff he sells so that he doesn't have to work "a real job" - and remember, he IS selling an IDEA/concept/image. The product comes after the idea Jonny advertises to potential customers of *what good dreadlocks should look like*. He does not offer any alternative to his concept.

If he's not running his business to earn a paycheck, what is he running it for?

Jonny doesn't provide any access to the spiritual history of dreads, he only sells his stuff. He seems to like his way of dreading and he's created a business out of doing what he likes. Good old American capitalism, okay - but what's not cool is that Jonny doesn't offer information for options besides his own, and on top of that, he denies that there are very valid alternatives to his way. Instead, he wants to make people feel insecure if they follow nature's way instead of Jonny's way.

Nic, you requested that we try and find out the effectiveness of DHHQ products. Dude, with all due respect, have you looked around on this site? Many of us have already suffered the effects of DHHQ (or similar) products. That's why a lot of us are here.

As for having the stomach to debate or converse about Jonny's real intentions, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that there's no little gnome running around forcing people's fingers to click on this thread. I know I click on this thread of my very own God-given free will and I would certainly hope that everyone else does the same - or not, as each chooses.
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
hows he think it helps when he gets thousands of complaints tons of people returning products and kits but then he dares to deny that in 10 years even 1 ever complained or returned productshe also says that hes adjusted the ammount u should use and specified the exact ammount un grams as a responce to complaints...complaints he denies he ever received..hows it possible to not think he lies when hes constasntly saying 2 completely opposite things?i bet you anything if u called and complained about wax then called back 5 minutes later disguising your voice and ask has anyo e ever complained about wax he will say no even though he just got off the phone with u after u complained..that would be a worthy experiment to carry out :)


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
i think its kindas funny hed call standing in front of a mirror grooming himself a spiritual experienceand he places so much value on dreads in 1 vid chopped 1 off without any emotion just so he can show u how to reattach it..i wouldnt cut a single dread for 10 million only way id cut as dread ids if i got enough to end hunger in a whole country or somehow end a war or really make some global difference..i certainly wouldnt cut a dread to sell a tool i know will destroy other dreads


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
eliminate all groups entirelyi believe many hes identify as being part of 1 group or another are simply misinformed or shamed into believing they have to fit into 1 group to not be branded a crazy cavemanand why can he only answer 1 question at a time? i dont get that at allthe questions are simple the answers should be too its simple logici could answer all 19 questions in under 5 minutes so could anyone here im sureofcourse formulating an answer that has nothing to do with logic or truth takes days you have to be very careful to not make sence while still seeming like it should make sence, you have to add in stuff like if this doesnt make sence to you you must be too dumb to understand it so your ego will say yea im smart so i must understand it even if your logic is thinking hmm something dont sound quite rightsimple truths are self evident and easy answers are easy to understand (question 1 for instance, wax can only be removed with excessive heat thats potentially dangerous so use extreme care when removing wax, washing will not remove wax without either excessive heat, emulsification in a hell of alot of soap (with hours of scrubbing) or with dissolving agents, but because it its nature it is nearly impossibly to get all wax out, your best efforts can remove most however with extreme effort..ive answered that question a few thousand times already its easy..ive answered every 1 of the questions i asked (we asked several questions were not mine)so i would loooooove to know why he cant answer all questions at once


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities

updated by @soaring-eagle: 07/21/15 10:29:15PM
☮ soaring eagle ॐ
@soaring-eagle
9 years ago
29,275 posts
ok i'll time thisstart time 6';44question 1: given the nature of wax, being a viscous substance with a melting point above 140 f and the properties of being hydrophobic how does wax not build up within dreads?wax can only be removed with excessive heat thats potentially dangerous so use extreme care when removing wax, washing will not remove wax without either excessive heat, emulsification in a hell of alot of soap (with hours of scrubbing) or with dissolving agents, but because it its nature it is nearly impossibly to get all wax out, your best efforts can remove most however with extreme effort.question 2: why is it recommended to only use non residue shampoo because residues are hard to remove, but also recommended to use a waterproof residue thats almost impossible to remove?well johnny recomends using wax fully knowing its hasrd to remove knowing its a residue, but he justifies it as this a resuidue that holds hair in place making it look like dreads faster, johhnny was smart he saw over and over people asking how can i make dreads look like dreads faster (most said dread faster not look like they were but he figured most couldnt tell the difference sio making them look like dreads faster would be a popular product, so for vanity sake lookimg like drewads faster would be worth the residue buildup>question 3: since dreads happen without effort how do you justify recommending a process with complicated instructions that takes hours and hours a week?dreads can happen through enjoying life and forgetting about your hair but most people are addicted to having to do things to gain results and by making the dreading process seem way more complicated then doing nothing adding products to make a complicated process work easier without as much work is good businessquestion 4: why do you demonize natural dreads when natural dreads are generally considered the most respected?cause they wont buy products if they realized natural dreads were better and more respected its as simple as thatquestion 5: why do you recommend using tools and techniques like felting and crocheting that cause massive damage to dreads?cause selling tools for 5 times what they sell for in craft stores ..well do i really need to answer that? i like money (answered as johnny not me)question 6: why do you deny harming anyone with your products despite the fact that thousands complain that they had to cut off dreads after using your products?who would but wax if they knew how many dreads were cut due to wax? claiming to have 100% satisfactions convinced alot of people to buy wax..question 7: why do you continually recommend using less and less wax but still recommend using any?because even tho he cant admit ppl complain they complain alot so he recommends using less to reduce the complaints while still recommending using an extremely excessive amount to keep profits high (his directions say use a full jar 1st waxing if u do the math)question 8: in your lock docta vid you market a felting needle as a way to "fix" dreads that are simply doing what dreads do as they mature, but on the lock docta website it clearly says using the tool can cause the dread to break tight iff, why do you recommend fixing a dread thats not broken with a tool that can cause it to be broken?because people dont understand dreads they see my severely overworked dreads that look like fake dreads and think oh my god i got a loop it needs to be fixed ..so i saw an opportunity to make more money off misunderstandings.(i find the answers easier to answer if i answer from johnnys perspective..but as johnny being totally honest an honesty u cant expect from him)question 9: why have your own dreads never lasted past 3-4 years?would u want waxy pillows longer then that ? wax dreads arent meant to last so they where restarted everytime they got too stiff or heavyquestion 10 why is it almost no waxy dreads last past 3-4 years?a few do, very few and those few have said they never used it to start dreads only very rarely to control frizzbut most get grossed out by theyre dreads so cut em offplus many who choose wax arent that into dreads at all just the dread look to look cool or they would have chosen a better way (well ofcourse i did insist they had to wax so alot were scammed into waxing so cut feeling they were mislead into dreading the wring way)question 11: why do you think most previous wax users now warn everyone not to use wax?because its wax..wax is residue it didnt belong in dreads everthere are a few who go on recommending it for some reason but the majority realize how bad it is so shout about it as loud as they can johnnys marketing madness is hard to overcome so the anti waxers have to be extremely vocal to make sure newbies arent mislead the way so many others had beenquestion 12:how much wax he originally used in all his own sets, and how or if it might have differed from his updated instructiononly the real jonny can answer this 1 but ill answer as menone never ever wait no i touched wax to 1 beard dread once after 1st time i heard of wax use..i scraped at it for years trying to get it out i was glad when that dread broke offquestion 13: the many customers who meet the criteria of "over waxing" how long would it take to remove wax that has accumulatedforever probably unless they cutor at least weeks even months to get most out but not allquestion 14: what is the correlation of stiffened locks and the use of wax, why does it seem to produce locks that have a stick like stiffened tightness to them, different from real maturity found in other locks. or is this the result of a fore mentioned over waxing.wax when below 100 is kinda hard..form but not rock hard hardened wax makes dreads stiffquestion 15: how is overwaxing defined?using wax is overwaxing but johnny defines it as using more then recommended even though the recommended amounts way more then anyone sane would ever use the waxiest dreads ive ever seen used 1/3 of johnnies recommended amount (pics in the wax removal thread)question 16: if wax is not needed and potentially harmful wouldn't any waxing be overwaxing?yes thats how he gets away with blaming you if your not satisfiedquestion 17: you have always blamed those who were harmed by wax for over waxing but over the years have constantly recommended the use of less and less wax, at the same time you deny that anyones ever complained, so why have you lowered the recommended amounts? why do you say nobody has ever complained but at the same time say everyone whos complained over used wax?answered already..i like moneyquestion 18: why do you recomend wax even for natural/neglect dreads?someone will be dumb enough to try it thats another 20 dollars in my pocket have i mentioned i like money yet?question 19: in the dread community natural dreads are the most respected and admired, so why do you try to make them seem the least desirable?they dont use products how can i make money off that? (it would go much quicker if i just answered every question with i like money)question 20: why do you think that all dreadlocks should look the same and shouldnt be induvidual?i have ocd and i like moneyi found if i perpetuate a myth of the perfect dreadlocks and made all other dreads seem ugly i could get money from ppl who previously didnt like dreadlocks, especialy people who care alot about being coolquestion 21: this is a multipart question. its been pointed out that in all of your vids you contradict yourseld constantly, several contradictions we request clarification on are: you say dread wax does not build up in dreads or trap dirt then say wax will trap dirt if stuck on a wall but doesnt trap dirt in wax in the core of dreasds. so if wax doesnt build up why is it in the core and if wax can get in why cant dirt? also, you claim wax doesnt make dreads feel sticky, but then go on to say you dont even like touching your dreads after waxing so you recomend dread butta to cver up the waxy feel. why does dread butta exist idf wax doesnt make dreads stink and feel sticky?look at the birdy see the pretty birdy look at the 1/2 naked dancing chick dont she got a cute butt?my answer is i dont gotta answer if i can distract you from the question long enoughquestion 21: what are the ingrediants in wax butta, and why should anyone buy it just to cover up wax they never should have used to begin with?money money money...moooney.. yea theres money in that jar..even ppl who hate using wax will but it so they wont hate using wax...yea baby i like moooneyrime completed 7 20total time 35 minutes (now 3 more to fix typos and dione easy as that..sorry if i answered too truthfully i couldnt find any other way


--
27 years growing dreadlocks the natural way
My dreads are over 10 feet long

also on the board of, and a student glider pilot with freedoms wings international - soaring for people with disabilities
 
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