Knotty Jonny Clean & baking soda/apple cider vinagar

So, I frequent the DHHQ facebook page trying to help out people asking for advice. And one person was saying that it was too expensive for them to make an order for DHHQ Dread Soap and was asking if anyone knew of any cheaper alternative to hold them over until they could afford it. I posted a link to a BS/ACV recipe (based off of the one SE posted here on this forum), and KJC had this to say about BS/ACV:"It's important to note that the apple cider vinegar and baking soda rinses are RINSES and not shampoos/soaps. They do not help water bond to dirt and oil to facilitate it's removal as soaps do. I'm not sure what the long term results of using these rinses in place of shampoo are but in the current experiment I'm doing the rinses seem to have the same effect as tap water. On a positive note they do not appear to leave residue of their own."I KNOW that's isn't true and people (SE in particular whose had his dreads 20+ years) use BS/ACV almost exclusively with only very positive results. In fact, I've heard that it works BETTER than DHHQ soap. I was hoping some one might have some scientific/chemical explanation for how BS/ACV works so I can bring that back to the facebook page to describe why what he's saying is inaccurate...Thanks in advance!
updated by @raging-roots-amy: 02/14/15 08:51:24AM

Well first off, while I have no hard scientific evidence to back it up, I have almost a years worth of healthy dreading that says that it's the best wash out there. I've pretty much tried it all, and when it comes to afford-ability, cleanliness, customization, and ease of washing, it takes the cake. Also remember that you're talking to a bunch of people who are still convinced that wax makes the dread, and that your hair isn't clean unless it's stripped of all it's natural oils. We here all know this to be incorrect. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. What we count on is the fact that baking soda removes build-up and grime (if you're not convinced then scrub your bath tub or toilet with the stuff) but without damaging our natural oils like SLS and SLES does. It cleans deep first, and then the acv balances out your scalp's ph, smooths hair follicles (in a way that makes your hair less frizzy without becoming slick and lubricated) and cleans away any left over build up from ANYTHING. I've rinsed with acv alone on really dry days and had my hair looking and feeling just as clean.

considering bicarb is one of the oldest cleaning products around and will clean just about anything safely i dont need anymore evidence than that

Just another lie facilitated by Mr. Clean to sell more unnecessary products to people who don't know better. I know you really like him knottymama but good lord is he full of it! Just another reason I will NOT support his company. Of course he'd say it doesn't do anything, you can't buy it from him! Baking soda is THE best cleaning product! It will clean just about anything no mater what his bogus experiments tell us. Just my 2 cents. Much Love & Respect

akll u need to do is wash with jonnys soap a year then do bs/acv and look st the rinse water the water will be..black yea thats all the dirt shampoos leave behind


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and it dont cause cancer like his crap does


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My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

@Heather -- it's enough proof for me, too, but I know if I were to say something to that effect he would just come back and say that he needs SCIENTIFIC evidence of it, not just my word. *rolls eyes*@NaturalWoymn -- Actually, my opinion of him has been steadily declining... and I've been feeling like I belong among heavy product users less and less. Admittedly, I DO use some of his products (lock peppa and dread soap).... but overall I am more and more disenchanted with him and his company, sadly. The longer I am involved in this community the more I gravitate towards this board, LOL. (SE -- I imagine that's fairly normal, LOL)@SE -- I was hoping to find some specific scientific evidence as I'm too impatient to wait a year to debate the matter with him. I definitely take your word on it, but I know that he won't. Also, on the matter of cancer, you might be interested in reading this page he has up on his website about SLS/SLES (including a link to a PDF file about how SLS/SLES being dangerous is total bull shit)... Here it is: http://www.dreadheadhq.com/dreadlocks-products-ingredients-sles.php

Seriously? Baking soda and vinegar have been used for decades...probably even centuries to clean EVERYTHING....man I wish I could find the science behind it so you could put him in his placeI read somewhere that it's because it an alkaline substance and it neutralizes the acids? but I don't really know...

Hmmm...geez, trying to Google an answer is difficult. There was a podcast I used to listen to when I kept an updated ipod http://www.howstuffworks.com/stuff-you-should-know-podcast.htm You could ask those guys. They do lots of in depth research and break everything down in terms that people can understand.

i no longer use any soap at all on hair or body i pour the baking soda over my head it runs over my body and im clean no longer having dry itchy skin i had from soapsbut let me find u infoAnswer:Asahi Glass Co., Ltd answered the question regarding the chemical properties of baking soda, and Shirosaka Co., Ltd answered the question regarding the relationship between baking soda and hair.Chemical properties of baking sodaBaking soda (sodium hydrogen carbonate or sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3, called Jyuso in Japanese), which is the weakest alkali among sodium compounds, has the following effects because of its properties:1.DeodorizingThe mechanism of deodorizing by baking soda is neutralization of acids and bases. So NaHCO3 can remove the acid odour only. It works efficiently in fridges, garbage disposals and footwear cupboards etc.2.BakingCarbon dioxide (CO2) gas, generated when baking soda is broken down by heat (1), makes dough rise. You may notice that when you make pancakes because bubbles are formed as they cook.2NaHCO3 Na2CO3 + CO2+ H2O (1)3.PolishingThe hardness of the particle is about 2.5 on the new Mohs hardness scale, so it can remove dirt without damaging materials such as stainless steel and iron which have high values of new Mohs hardness. However, it may damage soft metals such as aluminium and copper since their values of Mohs hardness are relatively low. So please be careful when you rinse such metals with baking soda.4.WashingConcerning the removal of dirt sticking on the surface of pots, put water in the pot, boil it and leave it overnight. The chemical reaction above (1) occurs at high temperature so that the pH of the solution in the pot is increased (pH of baking soda is around 8, pH of Na2CO3 is around 11). The fat in the dirt is partially saponified and the fiber in the dirt is also softened by alkali so that water can go into the gap between the stuck on dirt and surface. Then the dirt is easily removed.In the case of removing normal dirt, baking soda is dissociated into H+ and HCO3- in water. The HCO3- ion is adsorbed onto the positively charged surface of the dirt so that the dirt can be removed more easily from the surface.5.Cooking beansBaking soda is also used to soften beans quickly. Proteins in beans are dissolved and the fibers in the beans are also softened by alkali so that water can go inside the beans more easily.6.Caring for silverDullness of silver (Ag), commonly called tarnish, can be removed completely using baking soda. The tarnish is silver sulfide (Ag2S), formed when the surface of silver reacts with hydrogen sulfide (H2S) which exists in the air in small amounts. In order to remove the tarnish, first of all, aluminium (Al) foil is put on the bottom of a pot, and baking soda and almost boiling water are put in the pot. Then tarnished silverware is placed on the aluminum foil. The difference of redox potentials between Ag and Al is so large that they form a kind of battery. Added baking soda serves as an electrolyte in this system. Therefore, the electrons move from Al to Ag so that Ag2S releases S and the surface becomes Ag again. This process causes the tarnished silverware to become shiny again.*Please ventilate the air, if you do this experiment.Baking soda is a weak base and so it is not a powerful detergent like strong alkali which breaks down fat. However, it can remove dirt with the properties mentioned above.In order to prevent alkali from damaging your skin, use rubber gloves when you use baking soda.Relationship between hair and baking sodaFirst of all, baking soda is used as a dry shampoo for dogs or cats. As cleaners for pets are not covered by The Medicine Act of Health in Japan, it does not matter what compounds they contain. If something harmful happens, production is merely stopped. This can not be the case for a product applied to humans.In fact, there would be some problems if baking soda were used for shampoo/soap for humans. For example, baking soda has the ability to eliminate strong odours so that it might change the smell of perfumed materials. In addition, it might damage skin, although there are differences between individuals.Baking soda is sometimes used as one of the agents in bath powder. In fact, some hot springs in Japan contain sodium hydrogen carbonate, so this kind of hot spring is called baking soda hot spring (Jyuso-sen in Japanese) in Japan (see picture on left). It is alkaline at high temperature because of reaction (1). Baking soda hot springs containing many kinds of sodium salts, have some good effects, for example, soap works better, it softens the surface of the skin, and it removes fat and body secretions on the skin, etc. In order to imitate real hot springs, not only baking soda but also emulsifiers are added to bath powder.However, people might feel a chill after taking a baking soda spring bath since baking soda takes water out of the skin. This implies that baking soda could remove even water needed for skin and hair if it remained on the surface for a long time.As for the question about whether baking soda is good for hair, baking soda is usually used to remove hard dirt on pots or frying pans. But the protein in hair is fragile. In addition, 90% of the dirt on hair can be removed by washing with warm water only. Therefore, my conclusion is that you don't have to use baking soda to wash your hair.AcknowledgementWe thank following teachers for their careful teachings and kind suggestions in this report.*Asahi Glass Co., Ltd*Shirosaka Co.,LtdThis article is translated by Chemistryquestion.com from the original article in Chemistryquestion.jp. Please let us know if you find any errors. http://www.chemistryquestion.com/English/Questions/ChemistryInDailyLife/4c_baking_soda.html


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My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1