aloe and lemonjuice

there was some incredibly stupid arguing going on over how lemonjuice works. so to settle this lets compare 2 substances

aloe vera juice

lemon juice

aloe is often used in gel form, but the thinner juice works just as effectively

now lets compare 2 ways of using aloe

• aloe as a conditioner- aloe added to a rinse then rinsed out will soften dreads alot, can loosen young dreads too (non african) can cause frizziness by causing loose light well conditioned hair
• aloe as a tidy up- aloe when smeared or spritsed on and left in for long periods of time shrinks as it dries pulling in all the loose hairs making them appear less frizzy and even tighter.

aloe is somewhat sticky as all juices are it doesnt leave the dreads feeling sticky but it sticks hairs together and as it shrinks pulls them in drying in a thin crunchy translucint film

lemon juice works the same only more extreme (in the frizz/conditioning)

when put in a rinse and rinsed through they condition alot making the hair super soft super conditioned super frizzy (acidic rinses also close cuticles making the hair smoother shinier ..more slipery)

when you coat the hair in lemn juice and leave it on for days it sticks the haitr together (whilse still conditioning a whole lot loosening and making it frizzy but hiding that effect in hair stuck in juice)

like hair spray it tames frixzz by hiding frizz ..sticking it down..

but like hairspraty it does nothingh to treat the cause of frizz , in fact it does the oposite making the hair beneath the juice more frizzy

sea salt however dries the hair making it more able to knot up and get less frizzy by actualy tightening

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1
updated by @soaring-eagle: 02/15/15 03:49:28AM

SE, I agree with about 90% of what you said...but I would like to add the following. Most people are unaware of the following: Yes, acidic substances like ACV, lemon, lime and grapefruit do coat the cuticle layer of hair and smooth it and ultimately condition it. So, using these can remove knots depending on the dread stage you areat...but, lemon juice, used over a period of time (unlike ACV) and most especially in conjunction with the sun can significantly lighten the hair. Lightening of the hair can only occur when the substance usedenters into the 2nd layer of hair called the cortex. Which means that lemon juice has the ability to not only slick down the cuticle but penetrate it! So, after repeated application it can cause significant dryness and is not conditioning at all! I would never use lemon juice to further dreading because of its potential to do structural damage. Especially if left on for days at a time. Lemon juice also can and will interact with commercial hair colorings AND henna, so it is not something I would want anyone messing with. ACV is much safer and so is aloe vera. I want people to remember that our hair is meant to be a perfect 5.5 balance of acid and alkaline...so, ACV is a logical second step after washing with BS. But, if used with other substances, like Bronners, it can tip the hair to the acidic side and make it too soft...or, not used after BS and it can make hair too alkaline and very dry. Hair is always about balance. Too many members hear about using something and fail to evaluate their particular need. If your hair is oily, it is too acidic so try the BS and perhaps eliminate the ACV until you are in balance. It is a constant re-examing it your needs, not blindly following a single minded path that gets optimum results. As far as frizzy hair goes...hair will become more frizzy as it becomes drier...so, sea salt over time can create more frizz, the catch is that depending on what you use prior to the sea salt, it can define natural curl, thus...making frizz less noticeable. Thanks for the chance to chime in SE...this was a great topic and much needed to be discussed.

interesting so i learned a lil more

i was under the assumption that acv removes oils cutting them and making it less oily i hadnt known that ph affected oiliness that way but makes perfect sence since alkakline hair is too dry

i was just talkimg this over today so now need to cotrrect myself (thnx i love learning from you)

the seeping in to the unmderlying layers and damaging them ..hadnt been consousely aware of i guess but instinctively knew that leaving lemon juice on dreads for days was not a smart idea at all

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

oh and..the person this refered to..has color treatted dreads haha

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

Ahhh! Well then, this person will really be unhappy with their results. Hair is a fascinating subject. What I love is that without attending a formal cosmetology school for hair education you have become so well informed and knowledgeable! That is the main reasonI have stuck with this site besides all the great people I meet here. You, SE, are very well informed...and even when you are not completely sure of all the reasons why, you still use very good instincts. It is a pleasure to share information, thank you.
soaringeagle said:

oh and..the person this refered to..has color treatted dreads haha

most of its pretty much common sense

which is lacking alot these days

like take crochet for instance.. youd have to believe in magic to believe its possible to crochet without harm

then theres observation you see 1000 ppl twisting theyre dreads with huge areas of bald scalp you realize the twistings causing that and its not healthy

then theres learning from others ..most is from learning from theyre mistakes

but its a real pleasure to learn not from mistakes but from someone who has real substantial knowledge and experience

wghile your hear i want your opinion on 1 other subject

certain person claims twist and rip is just as damaging as backcomb "because of the mechanics of it"

claiming its still rubbing the cuticles against eachother doing harm

to me this makes zero sence since indamaged cuticles dont protrude much at all (she also claimed the cuticles have to be damaged for the knots to stay in) again making no sense since the cuticles even when damaged dont protrude enough to grip and would need to be reversed (top to bottom bottom to top) in order to have any velcro like hooking going on

to me tnr is as gentle as braidi g therefor would hqve very very low damage idf any at all

your thoughts?

Panterra Caraway said:

Ahhh! Well then, this person will really be unhappy with their results. Hair is a fascinating subject. What I love is that without attending a formal cosmetology school for hair education you have become so well informed and knowledgeable! That is the main reasonI have stuck with this site besides all the great people I meet here. You, SE, are very well informed...and even when you are not completely sure of all the reasons why, you still use very good instincts. It is a pleasure to share information, thank you.
soaringeagle said:

oh and..the person this refered to..has color treatted dreads haha

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

also your thoughts on mixing lemon and sea salt ..ive found the 2 cpunteract eachother making them at least gfar less efectivve if not useless but the sea salt without lemon causes lots of knots

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

Okay, here are my thoughts. Given the mechanics...no, T&R would not be as damaging as backcombing...especiallyif you are backcombing with a very fine, metal toothed comb. But, from my own experience I have observed the following: When I began dreading, I was coming at the process with extremely healthy hair. I had regularly used heavy, protein/moisturizing conditioners (atleast 3 times weekly) and cut or trimmed my hair monthly. Despite using commercial hair color my hair was in optimum condition. Before dreading, I also did not brush or comb my hair except during a haircut because brushing can encourage frizzing and my hair is naturally so. I had absolutely no knotting of my hair ever! Over the monthes that I have been dreading, I have notice a direct relation to my knotting and the health and condition of my hair...in other words, the present condition of my hair in my professional opinion is apalling! I truly feel that hair that is in a completely healthy state can not adequately dread. When I intentionally damaged my hair by pushing it into an abnormal state of alkalinity and dryness there was significant progress. Now, let me also add that I feel that most people (dreaded or not) are not aware of the true damage of their hair. I have had clients who swore their hair was healthy and I would vigorously disagree. But the bottom line is that hair which has a tightly adhered cuticle, which is present in extremely fine or extremely healthy hair will have alot of "slip" to it and I feel will not dread well. I do observe that the cuticle layer must be compromised to acheive substantial knotting. Once knotting is successful and dreads are mature you may acheive what appears to be healthier hair with oils or substances..but this is really only an illusion given that once the cuticle is damaged to a serious degree it does not truly ever recover. Also, bear in mind that given that hair is in a dead state except for the follicle sticking in your scalp.Hair that is very long and hasbeen on the head for extended periods will have cuticle damage anyway, because the cuticle opens and closes on a regular basis when subjected to water, soap, BS or even wind and can cease to effectively function...rendering it to be hopelessly damaged. This is a subject of great debate in the hair community at large. There are those professionals who believe that althought the hair is infact beyond real repair, they will use substances to give the appearance of hair health...while others feel that if it is only an appearance thenwhy try...why not just cut the hair off?

hmm makes sense but is say the sea salts opening the cuticles and preventing slip permenantly dammaging really?

i supose it could be since it can be corosive

and i hadnt used it ever untill recently and have noticed a significvant change in the way my hair feels i think ill stop it awhile

i definatel y agree that it helps to be dry and not too slipery

but i have seen babies..newborns ..dread in a few months.. with super fine hair thats well as new as new can be..so i do wonder if it being unhealythy and dammaged matters as much as just less oily

(ofcourse laxcking too much oils your more easily damaged too)

thnx this cleared up some things but brought up more questions too haha

--
My new book Ban The Taboo Vol 1

Yes,you raise valid points...I agree with everything you are saying. And anytime, my pleasure SE : )

soaringeagle said:

hmm makes sense but is say the sea salts opening the cuticles and preventing slip permenantly dammaging really?

i supose it could be since it can be corosive

and i hadnt used it ever untill recently and have noticed a significvant change in the way my hair feels i think ill stop it awhile

i definatel y agree that it helps to be dry and not too slipery

but i have seen babies..newborns ..dread in a few months.. with super fine hair thats well as new as new can be..so i do wonder if it being unhealythy and dammaged matters as much as just less oily

(ofcourse laxcking too much oils your more easily damaged too)

thnx this cleared up some things but brought up more questions too haha